@vboykis I wouldn’t phrase it that way. There are some programs who really enjoy programming, but aren’t that thrilled about syntax.

@vboykis This also extends to those who have outsourced core parts of their work that involve thinking and creativity to LLM-driven tools. Seeing it from board directors to students to all sorts of functional specialists. Trajectories from here will be fun to watch.

@vboykiss always existed a spectrum of low-level (OS, compilers, fundamental algorithms) to high-level (System level, concurrency, distributed, scaling) preference for software engineers. If you're a high-level dispositioned engineer (like me), LLMs make you feel like a wizard, conjuring all of the stuff you need to make the full system work in less time, and to your exact standards (if you so compel it).

@vboykis i feel like most people don't like programming if it's for increasing shareholder value. if it's just coding for my own personal projects without a PM breathing down my neck about OKRs and KPIs, i would happily write every line of code myself because I enjoy the craft.

@vboykis There was a shift around 2010-2015 where most men switched in college from degrees like business and mechanical engineering to CS programs. These are the (i want to make money) people. As a mathematician during that time it was annoying to tutor them. "I just want the answer!"

@vboykis There are a huge class of programming related tasks that are not necessarily enjoyable to someone that likes programming

@vboykist runs deeper than liking or hating the syntax. Some people want to build the thing and treat code as the tax they pay to get there, while others find the construction itself satisfying and the product almost secondary. LLMs relieve the first group and quietly take something from the second they never meant to outsource.

@vboykis I learned that I love building, assembling systems and seeing my ideas realized

I found joy in writing code at times but I never *loved it* so yes I am quite relieved that its no longer necessary to achieve what I do love

@vboykis There's definitely a grieving process when you realize you're probably never getting paid to touch a text editor ever again

@vboykis I like building things. I also like solving puzzles, which programming can be, in its best moments. But most of the time, it's an easy puzzle that I've already solved. I'd rather think about the design of what I'm building rather than replay earlier levels.

@vboykis I got tired of the trivia a long time ago. With LLMs I don't need to deal with that so much anymore and can grow whatever system appeals to me.

@vboykis For my case, the goal has always been launching products that have a positive impact on the real world

Typing grammar into a text editor was merely an intermediate step

@vboykise older, been doing it a long time, and already moved into a leadership position it’s an easier transition. I’ve been in it a long time. At a certain point, I don’t care what domain it is, it will all start to feel like boilerplate. I briefly grieved my loss of identity, then moved forward into the future. I still enjoy programming, I just don’t need to be the one typing.

@vboykis I enjoy programming and would still do it recreationally even if every last bit of SWE was reduced to interfacing in plain english with LaLeMaos

But LLMs are just cool! A lot of the hype is because of "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

@vboykis I recently had to code by hand without any LLM assistance and relying on pure skill. It was good to know I love programming

@vboykis How interesting! I can’t see how a programmer who doesn’t love programming becomes competent. I learnt because I loved it and became addicted.

I still love the process of engineering even though I rarely write the code anymore.

@vboykis Using words like language to control machines is kind of a bad idea. Surprised we didn’t find a better way already. Putting LLM/neural network between use and device is even more inefficient.

@vboykis This is kinda me! Software engineering felt solved for a while. I was energized by what tech could achieve, but not the tech itself.

But now? What's the best way to engineer using LLMs? Nobody knows!! That's so exciting!! There's so much room to experiment!!

@vboykis I never liked programming and so never really got into it.

LLMs now let me develop software by abstracting and automating the boring part.

@vboykisd quite simply ban the practice of using an LLM for SWE unless the developer is able to do the work without it.

To see why imagine this scenario, in a safety critical field:

"I never liked airospace engineering. So happy we now have AI so I don't need to care about the nitty gritty anymore" - said no airospace engineer ever. If they did nobody would ever want to board an airplane again.

We should treat software no different.

@vboykisjust n=1, and it does not reflect the reality of many of us.

I am one obvious counterexample.

I love/loved programming. Being able to tell a computer to do something and then watching it actually do it was deeply satisfying. I loved learning how other people approached problems, discovering more efficient patterns, and getting better at the craft.

But I loved building useful things that solved real problems even more.

LLMs let me do that at much greater scale and much faster.

So no, I do not keep the editor open all day anymore. I bounce ideas off AI, make architectural and product decisions, define the constraints, and send agents off to execute. I stay high level enough to keep the full system in view, but close enough to the implementation that I can steer when needed.

And honestly, I do not give a shit whether the LLM named a local variable x, y, and z, or gave every variable a perfectly semantic name. The computer does not care. It executes either way.

Reading every generated line of code is no longer the highest-value use of my time. The job has moved upward, from manually producing every instruction to designing systems, setting constraints, evaluating behavior, and making sure the right thing gets built.

@vboykis True. Architecting is the fun part.

@vboykis 'coding' - too broad term. You can love do some things and hate to do others.

@vboykis There is an alternative.

Some of us realized it’s just programming with an additional abstraction layer.

Our job is now to steer via programming, the Llm to the correct workflows ensuring a better result

@vboykis I like programming. I abhor syntax ceremony and the accreted complexity of tools. Some people for instance, enjoy the arcane tomfoolery possible with git or type gymnastics in Rust or Haskell...that stuff to me is playing with my food and static between me and the actual problem.

@vboykis Not everyone likes woodworking who likes a homemade, beautiful table made just for them

@vboykis I liked the puzzle aspect, reading cryptic documentation, decompiling binary files, the meetings and business talk was the annoying tax I had to pay to be able to spend a couple weeks on my own, and getting paid.

@vboykis It's not that I don't enjoy programming, it's that anything worthwhile is often a painful process, like 'type 2 fun'. LLMs remove all the small wins, and once you recalibrate to hedonic treadmill it's more painful than before. But you might be shipping a little faster

@vboykis Outcome lovers versus process lovers

@vboykis the same goes for game engines and visual programming btw
im in gamedev circles and mostly everyone there hates programming and only views it as a means to let the gamer interact with their art

@vboykis i'm kind of in this camp. I like to build stuff and move on, and grew to really dislike the bike shedding and leetcode gatekeeping. ivory tower folk disconnected from the business.

@vboykis It was a means to an end, absolutely

I still love creative problem solving

@vboykis I doubt many devs managed to get sufficiently good at programming for getting a job doing it, without loving it on some level. I think what you’re seeing is more like how a dev would opt for Python instead of low-level C to solve a problem.

@vboykis what if i love code and also love llms?

@vboykis No, it’s only the impostors that feel that way. The software industry would be better if such impostors were not a part of it.